My trailer last year when I first moved in averaged a high temperature of 68 degrees during January and February. I'd like to get an extra 10 degrees if possible. Partly because our bedroom averaged 58 degrees. The living room holds the most heat with our primary heating source being a pellet stove. I've already improved the insulating factor starting with the weed wacked skirting and plugging various holes and still have a ways to go yet on the insulation underneath. This year will be better and maybe we won't go through 4 tons of pellets like last year. I won't get to it this year but I'd like to know how you figure out your heat storage needs for a 14 x 80 foot trailer. At this point I'd be happy with another 10 degrees in the back (north side) of the trailer. If I can find a cheap source for brick I'll probably use that. I'm probably going to be heating it with a 4x8 flat panel. The area I'd like to put the storage is on the south end of the house where a pond use to be. There I could probably make a pit 8'x8'x5' deep. Would that be sufficient? After reading about the air flow through your medium I thought brick would be my best choice. The next thing I'm not finding is about the stacking and does it get cemented together? The area is prone to spring flooding so it has to be completely waterproofed as well. I may have to dig down 7 feet and add a couple feet of gravel and separator cloth before making the storage tank. Can someone at least throw me a few links on solar storage. I've been surfing for a few hours now and I'm not finding exactly what I'm looking for. Thanx. Jason

Before looking into external solar storage, I'd be most concerned with the ability of your structure to store its own heat. The building envelope of a conditioned structure is the most important thing to start with. Depending on how long you plan to live there, your heating consumption will depend on your structure's ability to retain your heat, and fend off the bitter chill outside. Very evident in your 4 tons of pellets to heat an 1,100 ft2 structure.

What is your R-value in your walls, floors, and ceiling? You'd do better to focus your efforts in stopping your heat loss with what you can do for a fraction of the cost in solar panels, and challenges with thermal water storage.

I really don't know what the answer is for trailers. Where I am from in FL, they are a step better than a lean-to as they shed rain better, but they are energy hogs. As an HVAC contractor, I service all types of structures that require cooling and heating, and the common denominator with trailers is the ductwork is undersized, and the HVAC systems serving them have to be oversized to account for the duct problems, and lack of insulation. The most common question asked by trailer tenants is "How can I reduce my horrible utility bill?" I find it difficult to tell them my opinion as I don't want to be insulting. Without air conditioning here, these tin can structures heat up like ovens during the day, and there is no chance of being in one safely without A/C.

For s's and g's, one 8 x 4 thermal panel for an 1,100 ft2 structure of avg construction (R-13 walls, R-30 ceiling) would be about as useful as cutting the lawn with a pair of hand shears. It would require about (7) 8 x 4 panels for a house of avg construction for solar thermal heating. A structure with less insulation would need more panels.

Money wise there isn't much I can do this year. This place is built with 2x4 walls so I know the insulation is thin. I was thinking about pulling off the paneling and adding 2x2's to the 2x4's and replacing the insulation with some thicker insulation. I think my biggest heat waste is the living room and kitchen ceilings. They aren't flat across but go up to the peak. 8 feet high in the middle and no ceiling fans to help disperse the heat. I haven't been here for a full year yet and I'm not the handiest guy around so I do what I can, when I can and tend to ask a lot of questions. The holes I plugged up here so far were ridiculous. Two of the holes were big enough to get a cat through. All of the duct work that went to the registers fell down into the registers and basically blew up the underbelly like a balloon. The whole center of the underbelly is sitting on the cross-member supports and I believe the duct work has fallen and shifted. I tried to push it back up today and all I could hear was the duct crinkling. Should I rip the underbelly and see what's really going on and hope I can repair the rips with duct tape? I also plan on building a snow wall at the back where all the wind comes from. That should help out a lot. Everytime we saw the trees moving outside we could feel a little more then a draft through the entire house. The cheapest I've seen pellets here so far is $279 a ton. Last January and February we were burning a bag and a half to 2 bags a day. I have a major project going on underneath the trailer to seal out the wind all the way around the skirting and I replaced 4 out of 5 missing pieces of skirting that were under our enclosed porch. I'm all out of skirting so I'll be down a piece. I'll have to get some boards or something to block the hole. I also have a kiddy pool that I can use to make an ice wall with once it gets cold enough. Jason

I would use a couple hot water tanks and circ pump, to transfer and store the heat from the panel in the water in the tank. Tanks are pretty well insulated. This is the method I am using in Green Ribbon houses in california.

That's one thing I've been avoiding. Me and hot water tanks or water hook ups of any kind don't seem to get along so well. The last trailer our shower head sprung a couple leaks due to the water freezing behind the shower. I tried soldering and re-soldering, the old pipes and then the new shower head system and I just couldn't get the solder right. I ended up shutting off the water to the tub off completely and then using a small garden waterer with a hose attachment that screwed onto my faucet for showers. It worked but was less then satisfactory. I would need step by step instructions for the entire system. If I was to do this type of a system I'd want to use a 250 gallon tank. The type they use for kerosene. I think I'd want to keep it separate from my drinking water though. Unless there's a really good way to clean these tanks out. I usually see one on craigslist a couple times a year. Right now there's a 1,000 gallon one a few miles away. I don't think I need something that big though and I have no way to get it here. Jason

swizzle

I hear you about the $. Money is tight for everyone across the board, unless you are a CEO of a banking firm using gov't bailout $ to line your pockets......

The first thing to do in your case, is to stop the wind from taking heat out of your structure by making it airtight. Next thing to do is add more insulation. You can do this a bit at a time by yourself and save $ by doing it that way.

Sounds like your duct system is shot (as they typically are in MH's). If it is not sound and airtight, it will be a big source of infiltration (outside air into your structure) since it is on the outside of the envelope of your structure. What is this duct used for? Air conditioning? Since you have a pellet stove, it it used for heating at all?

You will need to cut the underbelly out, and inspect the condition of the bottom of your structure. If it were me, and I knew the trailer was going to sit there indefinitely, I'd rip out the existing duct, re-make the duct with sheet metal, and size it for low static pressure for efficiency, and then spray the whole underside of the trailer with closed cell foam, encapsulating the ductwork as well with the foam. The foam is the best thing you can do to prevent wind driven air from entering your structure. It is also very tough and rigid and pretty much "critter proof".

It could be done with fiberglass batts, but it does not stop air movement, and it sags in time, critters love to nest in it, and if it gets wet, it looses its insulation properties.

As far as your walls and ceilings, you could do what you said by adding 2x2's, or you could use closed cell foam in your 2x4 wall cavity without extending the stud thickness. You will have to see what comes out to be more costly in time, materials, and the loss of interior space if you choose to add thickness to your walls.

I am a big fan of foam insulation, and I have seen firsthand how well it can stabilize the efficiency of any old structure. You don't have to have a brand-new house to have an efficient envelope.

With the rising cost of utilities and fuel for heating and cooling, one has no choice but to make their structure more energy efficient. You are guaranteed to either spend money heating and cooling it forever, or spend the money once to make it more insulated, and spend much less money to condition the space.

You will find that your payback in building envelope efficiency will be much sooner than wasting your $ on fuel to heat (and cool) structure with little insulation.

I like the idea of the foam but it sounds pretty costly to me, how does it compare cost wise to roll insulation and how do you buy it? By the can, pay a profession to come in with special equipment? Can it be a DIY type thing a little at a time? The way things are right now we'd be lucky to get one sheet of closed cell foam every 2 weeks or so. The duct work use to go to a propane furnace. Its the original furnace that came with the trailer, 1989 and had a 500 gallon tank that went to it. Apparently the landlord had a problem with big propane tanks in the yard and he couldn't afford to refill it so he had the tank removed. Propane is too high consider heating with, kerosene would be my next choice. According to our contract with the landlord we aren't allowed to have any other stove in here other then propane or kerosene? Not sure why but I know I'm not happy about having to choose my heating around my landlord's opinion when I own the trailer. Personally I'd rather burn wood. So for now our only heat is the pellet stove and electric heaters that we move from room to room and worry about our kids getting burnt on. Next year I have to buy a new heat tape. Our water pipe is sitting on the ground under the trailer and the heat tape is really old. It has a small round cord that looks like its older then the trailer. Right now I'm just doing what I can. The propane furnace was ripped out as well. So there was some major hole plugging when I first moved in. The duct work right now isn't hooked to anything. its just sitting there with all of the registers blocked with pellet bags and shopping bags and cardboard. Right now my main priority is to seal the north end which gets all of the wind. I really just want the underbelly to be pushed back up to where its suppose to be but I think I'm going to have to cut it to see what's going on and then go from there. I might rip all of the duct work right out but I may get a kerosene furnace in a year or two to help keep the whole house warm at night. Right now our pellet stove is a 3 year old Bosca and we've had maintenance come out to service it twice already. They told me the motor will most likely be the next thing to go and that happens about every 3 to 4 years on the Bosca's. I just hope I can get my trailer sealed enough to increase the temperature in here by 10 degrees this year. Right now I'm propping up strips of tarp all the way around the skirting on the inside and using what I have for insulation. I'm bagging clothes, shopping bags, taping together plastic bottles with shopping bags between them to make blocks. Getting packing peanuts where ever I can. I have almost the whole back wall done with "Hobo Insulation" but I need a lot more. The next thing will be bags of leaves if they dry out enough before the first snow storm. I still have roughly 174 more feet of skirting to insulate. I can get the tarp up around the whole skirting but I'll probably be cutting sticks to hold it up. I don't know what else to do. Jason

Can solar storage be done strictly with a passive system or would that be a complete waste of time? Swizzle

If you don't use your duct for A/C or central heat, and it's in the condition it's in, toss it. It will make sealing the bottom of your home easier.

Remember the name of the game is first stop the air leaks, then insulate. To spray the bottom of your home would require hiring a foam insulating company. It's a two part mix that has to be heated and reacts to create the foam. If this is out of the budget, fiberglass batts used in conjunction with a properly installed vapor barrier and some cans of expanding foam (from hardware store) at all penetrations would work well under your home.

Your walls and ceiling could be done with sheets of styrofoam ripped on a saw to interior stud dimensions. 2 standard thicknesses of the foamboard can get a 3.5 inch cavity filled. I'd plan to seal all the cracks and cut-outs for electrical or plumbing, etc. with expanding foam and silver tape the seams. This could be done one room at a time.

Sounds like you are working on a plan to stop the bitter wind. Just keep working at it, and you'll improve it bit by bit.

Hopefully by next year I can ditch the hobo insulation and get some real insulation. I just saw a solar water heater that was rather interesting. Its basically the internal tank of a water heater painted black and in a solar cooker of sorts. It looks rather simple and with a few questions here and there maybe completely do-able as a possible heat storage solution in the near future. My biggest question with using water for heat storage is how do you get the heat from the water into your house? Jason