http://www.reuters.com/article/lates.../idUSN01495211


What is the % ethanol in Brazil? I think it is close to 28%. Are the cars any different down their than in other parts of the World?

__________________
Making the world a better place just makes sense.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol_fuel_in_Brazil

Yes, there cars are different. Just different government mandates. They also have E100 vehicles. There government mandated fuel instead of safety or emission requirements. I can still get parts for my '62 ranchero form Brazil. They manufactured it up until a couple of years ago with a slightly updated engine.

Propably the biggest difference is how they view vehicles. Here we have about 250 million registered vehicles, just under 1 per capita. There the ratio is about 1 vehicle per 20 people. Here travel by motor vehicle is considered a neccessity. There it is a Luxury.

__________________
"I believe that intense beer immersion therapy is the only answer." Oggie

Al Gore - the James Baker of Enviromentalism

Every dollar spent on cutting your power usage saves $4 dollars on solar setup costs.

I for one would love to see ethanol go away, it is a scam in the USA as it is net negative energy or a carrier, not a source.

Fortunately where I live ethanol is gone and we get real gas. Too many people complained about poor performance and gas milage. I can attest to this as my vehicles pinged, lost power, and gets about 10% less mileage using ethanol.

__________________
Dereck, PE, MSEE
Moderator

If your car “pinged” it wasn’t from ethanol, considering ethanol has an octane rating of 116 it helps prevents detonation.


The gas mileage is a bit of a problem, but could easily be fixed if motors where made to take advantage of the properties that ethanol has.


The power issue isn't a problem either because you can make more power with ethanol then you can with reg unleaded.




One of the biggest problems with ethanol is that it is produced from corn, which is not a very energy efficient crop. Switchgrass is a much more viable option and is a positive energy source.

You argument is a Straw Man argument. Switchgrass ethanol is less efficient than corn. That means it takes even more energy to produce it than it returns. With Corn it is about break even to a little less than 1:1 EROI. With Switchgrasss or any waste vegatation product the EROI is less than unity gain.

As of today with all known technology sugar cane is the only known energy gain of greater than 1. In Brazil about 3:1. Unfortunately that model will not work in the USA

__________________
Dereck, PE, MSEE
Moderator

Switchgrass Ethanol Yields Large Net Energy Gain

"Switchgrass grown for biofuel production produced five times more energy than needed to grow, harvest and process it into cellulosic ethanol, finds a large farm study by researchers at the University of Nebraska-Lincoln published Monday.

The five year study also found greenhouse gas emissions from cellulosic ethanol made from switchgrass were 94 percent lower than estimated greenhouse gas emissions from gasoline production."

I guess that explains why there is not one single switch grass ethanol plant then huh?

__________________
Dereck, PE, MSEE
Moderator

They are being built, but it takes time and $$ so it wont happen overnight, but there are a few up and running.

DDCE: DuPont Danisco Cellulosic Ethanol

BlueFire Ethanol - "The Future of Ethanol"

Coskata, Inc.


The coskata plant is interesting because not only can it process switchgrass, it can process any biomass, including municipal garbage, which is pretty cool.

Well when one actually comes on line, let us know.

__________________
Dereck, PE, MSEE
Moderator

Coskata went live oct 2009
Dupont went live Jan 2010

Not sure what your point is, even if they where still in the construction phase how would that be a neg in regards to ethanol as a fuel?